How much time do clients actually get with an agency’s Chief Creative Officer or senior leadership? For many, the answer is surprisingly little.
Agencies often prioritise long-term retainers and large teams, but some in the industry believe this structure leads to inefficiency and diluted focus.
X&O, founded by Eric Segal and Brett Banker, takes a different approach. Operating on a sprint-based model, the agency assembles bespoke teams of senior-level talent to deliver three ideas in just three weeks. By eliminating retainers and streamlining operations, X&O aims to provide clarity and results without the excess layers common in traditional agency setups.
We spoke with Eric and Brett to learn more about their process, the shift away from the AOR model, and the challenges they see shaping the future of brand marketing.
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What makes you and your approach different, and how does the short-sprint client relationship impact that?
When we decided to start this thing, the absolute last thing we wanted was to just build another agency. We didn’t want to grow into that typical agency beast. Our focus is on the work and the ideas. The short sprints are a byproduct of our promise: 100% focus from senior, executive-level talent. That’s the real value proposition. To deliver that kind of focus, we condense the work into a tight timeframe. You can’t sustain that level of intensity indefinitely.
This approach is fundamentally different from traditional agencies. Agencies prioritise long-term retainers, which often come with bloated teams and inefficiencies. They pitch for free, hoping to recoup the cost during the engagement, but that model often leads to wasted resources.
We worked in this industry long enough to know what’s broken. Agencies operate with a pyramid structure: lots of junior staff, fewer mid-level, even fewer senior team members, and a tiny fraction of leadership. The problem is that leadership—the people who can make the most critical decisions—is spread too thin. Brands need senior-level focus to solve complex problems. Like, "How the hell do we solve this thing that’s been keeping me up for six months?" or "How do we pivot after this sales bombshell last night?" That’s the kind of stuff we’re built for.
Traditional retainers lock clients into full-time teams that may not be the right fit as their needs evolve. Then once they’ve locked you in, the whole game is balancing their investment to maximize profit.
So we scrapped all the inefficiency and said, "What do clients really need?" We’ve removed the retainer model entirely. Instead, we build bespoke teams of experienced specialists tailored to each challenge. These are people with deep expertise—great instincts, impeccable taste, and knowledge specific to a category, channel, or cultural space.
Plus, because our teams work on one project at a time, clients get their undivided attention. In the agency world, senior folks are often juggling dozens of projects, which dilutes focus. With our model, that doesn’t happen. We deliver clarity and results because our teams are laser-focused.
How does that even work? Are these execs still juggling other roles, or are they freelancing for you?
Freelancers. The beauty of the gig economy, right? They’re either freelancing independently or running their own small shops. When they work with us, they’re all in. For the duration of the project, we have their full focus. It’s not, "Oh, I’m balancing three projects right now." It’s "I’m here for this problem.” That’s the key.
We’re talking people with deep experience—big beverage, global retail, you name it. You’re not just getting talent; you’re getting the talent. It’s like borrowing someone’s brain for a week. And then when the project’s done, it’s done. If they want us for the next phase, great. If they want to take it in-house, fine. We’re not attached to execution. Most agencies want to claw back dollars by handling everything end-to-end, but that’s not us. We’ve separated vision from execution. We don’t need to execute everything we dream up because, frankly, a lot of clients already have in-house teams.
What’s your client mix like? Are you working with legacy brands, challengers, or a bit of both?
Definitely a mix. We’re working with Fortune 500 giants and start ups. Our model works for both because we match our services to client ambition, not budget. We don’t have overhead—no offices, no permanent employees—so we’re affordable for startups and established brands alike. For us, it’s never about the size of the budget; it’s about the ambition of the project.
And we’re not scaling like traditional agencies. Those agencies grow by moving up the client ladder—from small locals to regional, national, and global accounts—while shedding smaller clients along the way. That’s not our path. We’re working on a proposal for a startup and just submitted one for Coca-Cola. We can do both because our fixed-fee model and senior-level talent make it possible. We’re flexible because we’re lean—no buildings, no overhead, no unnecessary staff.
The traditional agency model is to scale with your clients—start small, then go regional, then global. And that’s great for some, but it’s not us. We’ve got a fixed-fee model, and it works. It keeps us nimble and lets us work with whoever we think is doing something cool. No layers. No Junk. Just the work.
What challenges do you see impacting brands in 2025?
The big question never changes: "How do we cut through the noise and resonate authentically with our audience?" Trends come and go—TikTok today, something else tomorrow. But the challenge is always the same. It’s about clarity, value, and emotional connection. That’s marketing 101.
The other constant is shrinking budgets and timelines. Brands expect faster results with fewer resources. The traditional model—395 days, 128 decks, and a team of 20—just isn’t viable anymore. Clients want quick, high-impact solutions, and that’s where we thrive.
The tools might evolve—AI, new platforms—but the core problems don’t. That’s why we’re big on bringing in people who’ve seen these challenges before. There’s a limit to the number of problems in the world, right? They just show up in slightly different flavours. And when you’ve got seasoned talent, they can spot the patterns and cut right to the heart of it.
One thing that’s evergreen? Communication. It doesn’t matter if you’re a beauty conglomerate or a local café. If your PR, comms, and marketing teams aren’t aligned, you’re in trouble. It’s basic, but so many companies mess it up. And in 2025, as budgets shrink and timelines tighten, getting those basics right will be even more critical.
If you were in a room full of brand leaders, what questions would you suggest they ask their agency partners?
Skip the pitch process. Seriously. It’s a waste of time. Instead, make a shortlist of five to eight agencies, walk into their offices, and meet the people. Spend an hour with them. Get a feel for how they operate. And if you see 20 people huddled in a conference room answering one question, run.
And ask the hard questions:
First, “How much time will I get from your Chief Creative Officer?” Agency leaders often sell the pitch but disappear when the work starts. That’s a red flag.
Second, “How will you adjust the team’s focus and seniority as my needs change?” Most agencies lock you into a rigid team structure, even when it no longer fits. That’s inefficient.
And lastly, just walk through the agency. If you see 20 people in a room debating one question, run. It’s a sign of inefficiency, and inefficiency costs you time and money.
Beyond the Desk
Who do you miss the most who is no longer with us, and what was the biggest lesson they taught you?
Eric: My childhood best friend, Adam. He died at 16. He was an insanely confident and comfortable creative spirit. He had ideas he just needed to get out, a desire to thrust them out into the world. It was pure, unafraid and joyful. So, the biggest lesson? Don't self edit so much.
What coffee do you brew at home (if you’re into specialty)?
Eric: La Colombe Nizza. Only. Always. An Americano in my Ember mug. It's a game changer. The last sip is as hot as the first.
Are there any non-mainstream clothing brands you’re loving right now, and what draws you to them?
Eric: Roark. I've got a cart going right now. Outdoorsy, cozy, great quality stuff. They're geared towards runners and surfers. I'm neither. But still love their stuff.
If you weren’t in marketing, what would you be doing and why?
Brett: Absolutely, unequivocally cooking 24/7. It's impossible to deny the allure of artform you can eat.
Which restaurant has left the most lasting impression on you, and what dish would you go back for?
Brett: Blue Hill at Stone Barns in Pocantico, NY (Westchester), which Eric and I went to last year to raise our glass to X&O success with our families. The many uses of the koginut squash dish will forever be cemented in heart and belly.
If you could only bring three vinyl records to a desert island, which ones would they be and why?
Brett: License to Ill, Beastie Boys. This album along with Straight Outta Compton two years later opened my eyes and ears to a new world. The beginning of the child rebellion, sneaking 3MTA3 into as many friends notebooks and TI-84's as I could.
Astral Weeks, Van Morrison. This album shaped my formative college years. The photo and album were a powerful symbol of his connection with the earth, which still hits home with me.
40oz to Freedom, Sublime. This album shaped my reckless and destructive college years. And the mushrooms, switchblades and sperm rays were right in my wheelhouse.
What’s your dream out-of-office getaway, and does it involve a full digital detox?
Brett: Hiking a mountain, without any view of whats ahead other than the trail in front of me.
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